Comments on: A Moral Dilemma

By: Chris Chudik

Chris Chudik — Sat, 28 Oct 2006 02:37:01 +0000

Dave,

In reading this and reflecting on it, this famous quote comes to mind:

â€œAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.â€? — Edmund Burke

Perhaps that sounds over-dramatic, but I don’t think so.

It has nothing to do with race, or dollar amount. It has everything to do with the fact that some people have NO VALUES.

That guy has probably done that for years with nobody saying anything to him. Maybe you were the first person that had the cojones to confront him.

Way to go. Hopefully our paths will cross soon!! —Chris

By: dave

dave — Thu, 26 Oct 2006 17:10:18 +0000

Preach on brother D! I’d recognize that IP address anywhere. 🙂

The last comment was by a former coworker of mine who lives on the south side of Chicago. He has a great sense of humor about racial subjects and I’d been looking forward to his comments on this post.

By: G-MONEY

G-MONEY — Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:42:09 +0000

Ok #1 I stole the money because; Iâ€ve stolen money before. (I learned it from early American settlers) #2 I dressed like that because the hip-hop culture says I have to in order to be cool. However others and myself are only hood rich, which means my wealth is only wealthy in my neighborhood, not the bank or the world. #3 I donâ€t mind you snitching on me it has happened before. Just know that snitching can get you killed or beat to a pulp or both. #4 I donâ€t think you are prejudice or that you are playing the race card. Hell I realize that a lot of people are criminals and they range from a variety of shades and colors, and genders George Bush (white), Kim Jong (Asian), Vincente Fox (Mexican), and list gets even more colorful when talking about corporate thugs, well maybe not; most corporate thugs are white male and some female. (Anyway enough of that) Well anyway I got to go beat my hoes and sell some crack cause I'm G-MONEY Bitch :)

By: dave

dave — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 19:00:38 +0000

Thanks for all the comments so far. To Ron’s comment about calling him “G Money” and that being a stereotype, I’m not sure what that means and it wasn’t what I said, but what I did say was probably no less stereotypical. I don’t oppose stereotypes though – they’ll always be there anyway, so if you’re going to be stereotyped you might as well make it a good one. The hip-hop star was presumably this person’s stereotypical ideal he was trying to achieve, and it simply helped me to convey his appearance in words when no images were available. This was intended to be a discussion of real-life morality problems rather than about stereotypes, but as stereotypes go they are a fundamental part of human psychology. We as individuals would be overwhelmed with information and very gullible if we didn’t have stereotypes to help us make decisions about our safety and other things we do just in the routine course of our daily lives. Each of us is faced with decisions about whether we trust a particular person based on limited information we know about that person. Sometimes these decisions are trivial, but other times they can have severe consequences for making the wrong choice. Like whether you trust the waiter at the restaurant not to replicate your information when you hand over your credit card. Like whether you walk on the sidewalk the long way or take a shortcut through a dark alley. Or whether you take a cab, bus or train in the city at night.

By: FieroLT1

FieroLT1 — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 12:11:05 +0000

I think you handled the situation beautifully. I would have also said something to the bartender. But when confronted by that person, my nature unlike yours, is unfortunately much more violent. I would have led the way outside where I would have shoved all that bling where it won’t shine any more.
Don’t get me wrong, I do not condone this type of behavior, but it is the way I usually handle things of this nature, for good or for bad, most of the time for the bad so no, i’m not proud of it.
These people make me sick to my stomach. And by “these people”, I do not make any reference to race, but to the ones that go out every day with the sole intention to attract notice and impress others with something they probably don’t have.
The ones that think the world owes them something or that they can behave anyway they want because no one is going to do anything about it once they have “made the scene”.
But you did do something about it, and he was not counting on that. Kudos to you my friend!

By: Bob

Bob — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 01:31:01 +0000

Well,

1. His hand had absolutely no business being in the tip jar… it’s not his… whether it is an alleged act or not is completely irrelevant

2. I’ve worked in many establishments such as this and always look out for the safety and well being of those that provide the service for us to have fun and let our hair down… Let’s face it, the staff are working stiffs and have to push a lot of ales to be able to pay the rent. Whether it’s a buck or two, or $1000 makes no difference. It’s a hard way to make a few bucks… Revert to #1

3. Being slightly confrontational about the situation is a very powerful tool. Had nothing been said, I’m quite sure the hand would have been in the tip jar again, that very evening. Is that accusational? Sure, but really, if no one stopped him before, what’s to stop him from doing it again?

Now, there’s the race thing…. There was a certain image that was being projected by the individual, for better or worse. Is it fair to call it exactly what it was? This is very touchy for many people. Myself, I would have left the race thing out, even though he projected the image to illicit a response. White, Black, Hispanic, Asian, etc… makes no difference…. Refer to #1… But you are right about 1 thing, it DOES reflect upon his race in a perceived fashion, based upon the image he was projecting. I have many friends that happen to be of African descent, that would have created a much bigger issue about his race than you did. So, the question here REALLY is, “Is it OK for a white guy to bring attention to an image that is being projected by an individual, that is clearly ethnic, and is commonly associated with negative behaviors?”

Bottom line, I would have jumped his shit…. Most likely in a more confrontational way ragardless of what his ethnic background is… makes no difference…. Refer to #1

By: Kerrie Anne

Kerrie Anne — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 01:16:00 +0000

Ok, you know my hot headed irish temper. I am learning quickly to vocalize my opinion. My first reaction would be to get all up in his face. Then my hubby would have to step in and have a nice chat with the guy.
But you are right, what would that solve.
Good question though.

We miss you Dave 🙂

By: Nancye

Nancye — Tue, 24 Oct 2006 21:32:59 +0000

Good Question!!!!

That’s a really tough one….not sure what I would do in that situation….being a woman, I’m sure I’d be concerned for my personal safety, and that would probably affect my decision, for better or worse…..

By: Matt

Matt — Tue, 24 Oct 2006 21:30:11 +0000

Dave,

I think I would have also said something to the guy, leaving the race part of that out, but I would have done it RIGHT when he took the money. If I had waited until after that I think I would have minded my own business and kept my mouth shut.

Unless I was drunk, I probably would have passed up the offer to “step outside” 🙂

Cheers,
Matt

By: Ron Nielsen

Ron Nielsen — Tue, 24 Oct 2006 21:06:40 +0000

Despite how people may attempt to portray themselves, our appearance is simply an outward facade masking whatever personal baggage or issues we are dealing with. Not knowing what this guy's motivation was whether because the few dollars helped buy food for his starving child or just because it makes him feel cool, I can say without reservation that I would not have made this about racial stereotypes or even about good vs bad. You began this story by describing the man as â€œG Moneyâ€? which in itself is a stereotype. I would think that everyone, regardless of how they dress, their race, or even their initial demeanor deserves the right to be regarded as equals. In the instance that you mentioned, specifically the ALLEGED theft, you saw something but still had no definitive proof that any crime actually took place. Your concern for the bartenderâ€s tip could have been easily offset by informing him after the incident and increasing your tip upon your departure. We all have to do what we can to have each otherâ€s back and help whenever possible but that does not necessarily mean start a fight or even take aggressive measures unless of course he was in need of such aid, i.e. the man started a fight with the bartender. Throwing the bartender a few more dollars from your pocket on the way out would have showed so much more class, and reverence that this situation could have gone totally different. In the end, whatâ€s done is done. Iâ€d recommend the tip jar be moved behind the bar.